http://www.irishrugby.ie/newspage/65026.html

Looks good too.....looks ''futuristic''....now go and build it and hump the neighbours.

A few more images ....http://www.lrsdc.ie/gallery/photocategory.asp?PCID=34

Landsdowne rebuilding cost rises by €70m
From:ireland.com
Monday, 17th October, 2005

The cost of redeveloping Landowne Road will be just over €70 million more than estimated.
Minister for Sport John O'Donoghue today unveiled the final plans for the 50,000-seater stadium - to be used primarily by Ireland's rugby and soccer teams.

But at €365 million, the cost of redevelopment is more than the €292 million originally envisaged. Philip Browne, chairman of the Lansdowne Road Stadium Development Company, said: "This is a very different stadium to the one which we looked at in our original feasibility study."

Mr O'Donoghue said the arena would be a superb modern sports ground. "This is another major piece of sporting infrastructure in the city of Dublin which will be enjoyed by all Irish people.

"We can be proud of this imaginative and attractive design. It is a superb modern structure and one which I hope will come to be an icon for Irish rugby and soccer followers," the Minister said.

The stadium will be made up of continuous curved stands enclosing all four sides of the ground. The south, east and west stands will have four tiers, with the bottom and top levels holding most spectators.

The north stand will sweep down to one low level of seating, allow plenty of sunlight onto the playing surface and minimising the impact on residents close to that end of the ground.

Mr Browne said: "We believe the team has taken on board many of the concerns and have addressed them without compromising their design. They have also built in a great deal more facilities than we originally had hoped for. This in turn has given us a wider range of funding opportunities."

Some 10,000 seats will be set aside on the second tier for premium ticket holders while the third tier will cater for around 1,300 corporate visitors with hospitality facilities.

The ground will provide better disabled access, press facilities for up to 300 and improved player facilities for both home and away teams.

It is hoped work on the stadium will begin in early 2007 and that it could be ready to host major soccer and rugby games in 2009. The existing stadium will host matches during 2006.

But the residents' association in the exclusive Dublin 4 area where the stadium is situated could be a major hurdle to securing permission for the building.

The stadium is being co-developed by the Irish Rugby Football Union and the Football Association of Ireland and grant-aided by the State.

If the planning process If the planning process stays on schedule, then the work is expected to begin in 2007 with completion by 2009. The international rugby and football teams may play at Croke Park during that time after the GAA scrapped its controversial Rule 42 in April.

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/breaking/6533104?view=Eircomnet

I think it looks attractive

Looks nice, but what's forcing the lower roof/smaller capacity stand where the north terrace is now? Is the site constrained behind the north terrace? (I sit in the upper west, near the north terrace end but you can't really see 'over' it to see if there's something stopping expansion there.

Looks great but I dont see it happening, not without a prolonged fight anyway. After all the residents of Landsdowne Road have deeper pockets then those on Jones's Road.

Looks great but I dont see it happening, not without a prolonged fight anyway. After all the residents of Landsdowne Road have deeper pockets then those on Jones's Road.

maybe so but...you cant help thinking that when then compare what is there presently to what is propsed even they will soften... well maybe a little bit!

i think it looks great. hopefully a nice quick 2 month decision :)

I like the design but it suffers from a very serious problem - there is practically no increase in capacity. It's been impossible for general rugby fans to get tickets for any of the home internationals or the Autumn tour games for years (excluding the non-competition Autumn matches against minnow teams). For those outside of the inner circle with ties to high-up club blazers or without access to the corporate channels, the redevelopment means nothing in practical terms. I'd rather be able to get tickets to watch Ireland from a crappy stadium than be able to admire a nice new stadium on television.

This is such a serious flaw that I have very little enthusiasm for the new stadium despite actively following rugby since my childhood. An idea I had hoped would have been entertained was to preserve some terracing in the new stadium. Ok. it would have been out of bounds for soccer internationals but even 10m of terracing on front of all the seating would have, I estimate, have increased the capacity by about 10,000 for rugby internationals. This would also ensured that the special Lansdowne atmosphere created by the mass of standing supporters would be preserved and would have made Lansdowne unique among modern rugby stadia and would have given the IRFU the chance to offer some cheapish tickets.

So, it's great news for the well connected who can get tickets - they'll have more comfort watching the matches - but it does nothing to expand rugby's appeal by allowing more of the public or general rugby support the chance to experience the top games. A missed opportunity.

how many proposed designs has that stadium gone through since plans were announced to do it up? i do like the one above.

I think the site is constrained by the DART line behind the North terrace.

The capacity is a concern, but IF Croke Park stays available, there's little need for two large stadia in Dublin, so one 80K and one 50K might make some sense. If Croke Park is closed off again by the GAA once Lansdowne Rd. is finished, this makes less sense.

I just wonder how much it'll ACTUALLY cost. Hard to believe the Millennium stadium in Cardiff (c. 80K capacity with a sliding roof) was built for under £170 million (sterling).

Why don't they build the stadium outside of Dublin and the suburbs? These areas already have traffic problems, so why add to it? We all know that the nearby residents are going to complain, which I don't mind as long as they have good reason to, which is going to raise the cost AGAIN. So they could save a lot of time and money if they build it somewhere else.

Looks nice, but what's forcing the lower roof/smaller capacity stand where the north terrace is now? Is the site constrained behind the north terrace? (I sit in the upper west, near the north terrace end but you can't really see 'over' it to see if there's something stopping expansion there.
The IRFU are believed to own quite a number of the houses on the Lansdowne Road end of the ground - apparently they were buying the houses up until the time that property prices started to go mental. There are relatively few houses at that end of the ground (and therefore relatively few potential objectors), though quite a number at the Havelock Square/Vavasour Square end. Perhaps this is influencing the design of the stadium?

It will also be interesting to see just how they deal with the railway track - the level crossing, etc.

Building out-of-town stadia went out in the eighties. It's a terrible idea as the pre/post match atmosphere is generally dire. Many people drive so cannot drink and just disappear after the game; even if you don't drive there is little reason to hang around a carpark near a motorway. Even in the US - the land of the automobile - all the new baseball stadia are being built in "downtown" areas in recognition of the mistake that was made in seventies when the stadia moved out of the cities. No matter how many pubs, restaurants, etc. you build into the stadium complex, it could never compete with the hundreds of pubs, restaruants, shops, hotels, guesthouses within walking distance of Lansdowne Rd. It's one great thing about Dublin that we have two stadia within walking distance of the centre. It's what makes Dublin possibly the most popular destinations in Europe for rugby.

The capacity is a concern, but IF Croke Park stays available, there's little need for two large stadia in Dublin, so one 80K and one 50K might make some sense. If Croke Park is closed off again by the GAA once Lansdowne Rd. is finished, this makes less sense.

It's a nice idea but it just won't happen. Even if the GAA were willing, I can't see the IRFU handing over 50% of their revenue to allow an extra 25% watch the match. I can't imagine the IRFU only using Lansdowne Rd for three rugby matches every two years (Italy on alternative years and a match against a minnow in the Autumn). For every other match there is huge demand for more tickets.

It's a nice idea but it just won't happen. Even if the GAA were willing, I can't see the IRFU handing over 50% of their revenue to allow an extra 25% watch the match. I can't imagine the IRFU only using Lansdowne Rd for three rugby matches every two years (Italy on alternative years and a match against a minnow in the Autumn). For every other match there is huge demand for more tickets.

I think the capacity of Croker is about 84K, which would be an increase of 68% over Lansdowne. That probably would be worth upgrading for. However, it probably only makes sense if the GAA reciprocate and move matches with attendances less than 50K from Croke Park to Lansdowne.

An interesting idea - would the GAA want to play away though?
Saw the other week the Ladies final in Croke Park had but a scattering of people on the lower tiers - then again they wouldn't want to host a final at least anywhere else which is understandable...

Just on a point mentioned on the Aer Lingus HQ thread by murphaph - what is to happen to the (surely this time ;)) fondly held tudor-syled house nestling in the corner of the ground? Yet another presumably protected house getting in the way. It'll have to be swept away outright, but I wonder if there are plans to 'keep' it for use elsewhere?

Would it not be appropriate for the Wanderers pavillion to return to the clubs newish home on Merrion Rd?

A tough one to move given its finish

you know it really is a joke, here is something of national interest and importance and a few gobs$£"tes are probably going to hold it up for years. Who knows what thrilling and convinving arguaments and lies and hype they will create. How many millions are they going to cost the state (i,e you and me) so they can congratulate each other on causing pain misery and expense for others! and sure if their campaign fails sure atleast theyll have tried! im sure theyll be complaining about the huge increase in capacity! when in fact it will be down 5000 for rugby but up 17000 for soccer, but still overall not a huge increase! theyll say it will overpower the area, isnt appropriate, is to modern for the area, theyll probably want it built it in mock red brick and it should have a slate roof! And it will probably be half the hight of liberty hall ladies and gentlmen, liberty hall! That collosal skysraper in town everything else here gets compared to when its over two stories! Have got to say it looks damn impressive, im more than impressed. I just get so wound up here when i think of all the waste of time and money and self interest that holds projects up. Just read earlier Lidl said they were basicly fed up with the amount of appeals etc holding up and blocking their attempts at expansion. And who makes most of these complaints? the competitiors they shouldnt even be entertained! RGDATA objected to a Lidl being set up in a retail park saying it contravened planning regualtions, funny that one of their member supermarkets has a supermarket in a nearby retail park! bloody hypocrits! Its about time that this crap was done away with and the interest of the majority were served! anyway was just thinking theyll probably be organising protests etc to the new stadium all 10 or so residents, why doesnt anyone who cares for Irish sport go down and organise their own protest and outvoice those backward pr*£"s! Their probably salivating at the thought of their own importance now that they get the chance to scupper such a vital piece if infrastructure!

The redevelopment plan for Lansdowne Road Stadium envisages the creation of a modern stadium, which, on completion, will have an all seated capacity of 50,000.

The 50,000 compares with the existing Lansdowne Road Stadium which has an all seated capacity, as required for competitive Soccer, of 36,000 and a mixed standing and seated capacity of 49,000 for Rugby. All seating in the new stadium will be under cover of a roof; however, the roof will not extend over the pitch. The planning application will be lodged by Christmas 2005. A one-year period has been allocated for due process on the planning application, during which time detail design and procurement will progress. Construction proper, depending on planning, is scheduled to commence in the first quarter of 2007 and to finish in the second quarter of 2009. The existing stadium will be available for matches during 2006.

http://www.irish-architecture.com/news/2005/000205.html

RGDATA make my blood boil, arrrggghh.....just thinking about them......conspiring

Half of the 'locals' are people who will have moved into the area in the last decade, mostly into the apartment complexes near Ballsbridge. How anyone living there with an ounce of common sense can think that this beautiful piece of construction will detract from the area that currently has the world's shittiest international football stadium. I hate going to Landsdowne now-the charm of the place wore off on me years ago-it's old and decrepit.

RGDATA make my blood boil, arrrggghh.....just thinking about them......conspiring
I hate going to Landsdowne now-the charm of the place wore off on me years ago-it's old and decrepit.

I hate the place too, as well as the RDS - old and decrepit , and the Point Depot - old and decrepit glorified warehouse.

While I think the design is really good, I believe the site is too small. The existing site should be sold and then they should buy the former Irish Glass site just 5 mins walk away. There you will have plenty of room to build a stadium far bigger than 50,000 which I would consider small seeing how popular tickets would be for Ireland games.
Also the stadium on the Irish Glass site wouldn't be right on top of the locals unlike Lansdowne and there would be spaces for parking etc too.

there should have been some increase in capacity - even if it meant moving the stadium to another location (the docks, or the irish bottle plant site) - 65,000 would probably do it. It looks nice, but i'll probably only ever see the outside of it.

the idea of having some terracing is an interesting one - schalke 04 in germany have a terraced section in their new ground which can be easily converted to seats when they play in european matches (where terracing is verboten). Given that LR is a joint rugby\soccer stadium maybe something similar could have been considered. There's no ban on terracing for rugby matches, and it does add to the atmosphere - an opportunity missed by the IRFU there.

Interestingly one of the residents interviewed in the Times today makes the point that the new stadium will be like having Liberty Hall in her back garden. She pointed out that, with boundary changes, the stadium will be as little as 15m from her home.

I like the new stadium. Its a very clever design and very eyecatching. If I read right the 'dip' or undulating roof is a product of the desire among the architects to meet residents concerns about overshadowing. And the finished product willbe all the better and more distinctive for it. Frank McDonalds piece is quite informative. The picture on the front of the times doesnt sell it for a minute though....at least not to leafy D4 residents. But as one other woman pointed out the alternative to the stadium is residential development and observing the shenanigans at Jury's that means high density high rise stuff. I think most people will be practical in the end although I think a 2 month planning process is a little too optimistic

The illustrations looks great.

How often are two games >50,000 taking place on the same day in Dublin?
Why are all large games not just played in Croke Park with some smaller GAA played in Lansdowne? Time to bury the hatchet and the childishness.

According to press reports in January 2004 smaller GAA matchs would be played at new Lansdowne as it was'nt econoical to hold certain matches at Croke Park. I don't know if policy has changed now.
Sounds strange, but stadium economics are mad, just look at Leinsters decision to rent the RDS rather then use Lansdowne as it works out more profitible.

The idea of all large matchs being played at Croke Park maybe practical but from psycological problem of the IRFU and FAI having "borrow" the GAA ground for its big matchs.

Reading McDonald's piece today reminded of how highly Croke Park is thought. of. I have never understood the admiration for this building. Sure enough it serves its purpose very well, but as regards contributing to the sky line or being astetically pleaseing on the outside I just see a load of concrete. Fine piece of strctural engineeing but can't see the architure.

On the other hand I think the Lansdowne design looks very pleaseing.

I think the new Lansdowne Road proposal with its undulating curvy ''organic'' like roof makes Croker look kinda dated.

After an intial positive reaction to the new proposed stadium i'm having some 'aftershock' of disappointment. The design lacks ambition. In order to pacify residents they've gone to the other extreme and produced in effect a three sided stadium. The north end will leak atmosphere from the stadium like a sieve. To an extent Croke Park has the same issue but at least there hill16 is of significant heigth and it is a terrace which mitigates against any loss of atmosphere.

There should also be a terrace in lansdowne for the rugby games. Swapping the present North terrace for a mickey mouse northern stand is a mistake.

Its unlikely the GAA will want to use this stadium - why would they pay the FAI/IRFU when they have an ample and superior stadium themselves. A half full croke park is better for the GAA than a full lansdowne they would have to pay for, At the same time the FAI/IRFU will constantly find themselves under pressure from supporters to use Croker for the big games.

Finally i can't shake the conviction that Dublin doesn't need two large expensive stadia. I am convinced that time would have been better spent coming to final agreement on the use of Croke Park by all three organisations. Thereby saving the tax payer millions and having increased access to all sports while also generating more revenue for the GAA (all of which is pumped into local communities).

I believe that Dublin needs 2 stadiums or even more (or why not develop a secondary multipurpose stadium outside Dublin) If Croke Park was solely used for all field games (Gaa Football, Hurling, Soccer, Rugby) it's playing surface would greatly suffer. Also there are times too when major games in either of the 4 field sports clash. If ye look at Scotland which has about the same population as ourselves but yet only 2 field sports (Soccer, Rugby) it has an ample amount of decent stadia that are reasonably used. Glasgow has Celtic Park , Ibrox and Hampden Park and not forgetting Murrayfield in Edinburgh as well as Hibs and Hearts grounds

The Croke Park surface can handle the pressure - its been designed for it - the schedule this summer has been particularly punishing and there's not a mark on the pitch. Going forward the GAA plan to have fewer matches in HQ and more in the provinces (due to lower attendances and not the surface) so its ability to hold more games would improve even further.

With all due respect to Scotland they don't need all those stadia either, it has a population over 10 times that of Dublin, a soccer league that people actually go and watch and none of the stadia are of the quality of Croke Park or the proposed Lansdowne road (in fact many of them are falling down). Its not a good example and not one i'd follow.

....just to add the population of Scotland is about 5 million and is due to fall below that ....the population of the island of Ireland is 5.5 million and continuely growing. Lansdowne Road will be enthusiastically used when redeveloped just as the magnificant Croke Park is . It will not be a white elephent .

.....and Celtic Park, Ibrox, Murrayfield or Hampden Park are not falling down.

It will certainly be used and will make an operating profit; my own feeling is that they missed an excellent opportunity to turn the stadium 90 degrees onto the back pitches and sink it down by 30-50 metres into the ground as was done on a grand scale at the San Siro in Milan.

I wonder will Landsdowne be the one bypassed in the future for the major games if the GAA drop their ban on selected foreign codes?

sink it down by 30-50 metres into the ground as was done on a grand scale at the San Siro in Milan.

Turning it into a double-size olympic swimming pool by default? :)
Very high water table in the area- possibly prohibitively costly.

i'm sure it'll be used alright - but most of the time its being used Croke park will lie empty. nobody has managed to convince me that this is not a massive waste of taxpayers and sporting organisations money!

I got Scotland's population wrong - i always thought it was 15 million! Anyway not only do we have Croke Park but also Pairc Ui Coaimhe, Semple Stadium, Thomond, Gaalic stadium etc etc - these are good big grounds too, the match of all but the very best in Scotland. Would there be any point in cardiff building two millennium domes?

Very high water table in the area- possibly prohibitively costly.

The general area has flooded twice in the last 20 years once in 1985 and the last time in 2002; on both occaisions Landsdowne Road was unaffected; although conversely it might get some action for the residents in the area who have had temporary private swimming pools. ;)

Wales is a different case to Ireland. There would be no point in building 2 Millennium Stadia in Cardiff, especially with the new Wembley Stadium due for completion next year. The Cardiff Stadium will be used less and it is in debt too. Wales has only a small population and 2 major field sports, not 4 like us. The English tax payer would not fork out this money.

if Croker can handle all the games while Lansdowne is being rebuilt then it clearly is deeemd capable of handling all whether or not Lansdowne is rebuilt. Surely this is self evident. The reason we are talking about building a second stadium is not because Croke park can't host all the games required.

It's a case of Croker having to handle the games while Lansdowne is being redeveloped, else they'll be played abroad. The GAA are kindly giving the FAI and the IRFU a dig out in other words, else the games and revenue goes to Britain, which would be ludicrous. Also the locals in the Croke Park area would object to so many games and events. There is somewhat a cap on the amount of games and concerts that can be played there!

if Croker can handle all the games while Lansdowne is being rebuilt then it clearly is deeemd capable of handling all whether or not Lansdowne is rebuilt. Surely this is self evident. The reason we are talking about building a second stadium is not because Croke park can't host all the games required.

Look get over the fact that "shock horror" Dublin can handle two national stadia. There is enough business to keep them both going at the moment, what's going to change when the new Lansdowne is built.

I hate this 1980s attitude of this country some times, oh dont build the IFSC it'll be a white elephant, don't build the luas it'll be a white elephant, don't build the Spire it doesn't do anything - dig yourself out of your provincial arses and look to the future folks ...

[QUOTE= dig yourself out of your provincial arses and look to the future folks ...[/QUOTE]

Well said Rory!

If we can keep to intelligent conversation for a second i can think of 100 better things this country could spend 300 million on than a non needed second stadium in Dublin. Health, Transport, Schools.

Personally i supported Luas, i supported Croke Park, i still defend the spire but i am entitled to the view that the redevelopment of Lansdowne road is a waste of tax payers money - not because it will be a white elephant but because is it not needed and nothing you have said that convinced me in the slightest that it is.

I finally can't agree that using phrases like 'taking head out of provincial arses 'is well said - actually its fairly base.

Ah, I bet ye'll be saying ''I supported Lansdowne Road'' when it's built .......will ye go on outta that Dodger.
Sure our Government is rolling in millions of euro, bout time they wasted some of it on sport as well as unused electronic voting boxes, etc.....
If ye thought that the population of Scotland was 15 million people, I think ye should get back to the school books and do a bit more researching and learning. Ye'll see reason then.

Sure our Government is rolling in millions of euro, bout time they wasted some of it on sport as well as unused electronic voting boxes, etc.....

so we're in agreement then.

The north stand will indeed leak atmosphere. It could have been a cauldron for foreign teams to come to, but not now. It'll be far less intimidating to foreign teams with a missing end, and it is essentially missing. The interior renderings looking north clearly show this. Why can't we just have one thing done properly in this country. Surely the houses on Havelock Square could have been CPO'ed.

I like the 'podium' area that will be built over the exiting DART line, but I wonder how access will be facilitated to this 'mezzanine' from say, Landsdowne road-it'll be at quite a height from street level if the road is to be lowered under the railway where the LC is now.

All I can say about having 2 stadia in Dublin is that I'm glad it's not going to be turned into apartments like Glenmalure Park-Rovers never recovered from that.

I agree about the loss of the cauldron atmosphere it would appear that the capacity at the North end will actually be lower than at present. Unfortunately the Houses at Havelock Square are PROTECTED STRUCTURES so a CPO being cleared would be unlikely. :rolleyes:

Re Rovers: My analysis is worse not only have they never recovered they appear to be sliding still further into the abyss. :o

That site in Tallaght gets smaller with each 'rescue package' :mad:

Bare-faced bribery could be the answer to the problem of the low North stand (and the chances of the stadium being built)

Two 50 year tickets to every house in Havelock Square. These tickets to be for seats chosen by the residents and available for every event (matches and concerts). Sellable. Bequeathable.

That might amount to about 100-200 seats for every event. But worth a lot to the residents. Of course there was a time when such an offer might have been worth more than the houses themselves. Not now, of course, but still a tempting offer.

Unfortunately it is their Southern light and would take 200-350k off the value of each house

I'd say that the Havelock Square part of the ground in question is deliberately slightly reduced in the image so as to take the harm out of it and not frighten the residents. I'd say when it's built it won't be so low as in the image. Besides this end of the ground will always be available for further enlargement should the residents die/move off in years to come. There will always be the potential to enlarge the capacity of the ground. They can't say that now either else the residents will be really up in arms.

I must say im slightly dissapointed aswell with the scaling down of the northern end of the stadium, it'll definately give it a disproportionate look, a small "bus shelter" surrounded by 3 large stands stands, its interesting to note that the original design envisaged 2 three tiered stands on the east and west sides of the ground and 2 single tiered stands behind either goal, however these stands would have been larger than what is currently proposed for the north stand, this design is almost identical to the dragao stadium in oporto and the city of manchester stadium, the oldest example o this type of stadium is the ullevi in goteborg in sweden, i think they basically pioneered it

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/sweden/vastra_gotaland/goteborg_nye_ullevi.shtml

The Dragao
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/portugal/porto/porto_dragao.shtml

City of Manchester stadium
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/united_kingdom/england/north_west/manchester_city_stadium.shtml

Landsdowne is just a variation on these designs. Its actually a real pity that we dont have any properly enclosed stadium in this country, its a real pity that hill 16 couldnt have been finished to the same standard as the cusack, hogan and the canal end, it gives the stadium an unfinished look. Whatever about the houses at the havelock sq end of landsdowne, the houses behind hill 16 have no architectural merit whatsoever, am i right in saying they would basically be 1950s council houses?, i know the railway is a big constraint but if this was the new wembley stadium or the nou camp it would definately be re-aligned, we're only talking about a short section of it anyway, it could even be put underground, it would actually improve the area as a whole, not that this would ever happen in Ireland!

Perhaps when all is said and done the capacity might be a bit inadequate especially for rugby games, maybe 60,000 plus might have been better but then again the cost might have been prohibitive and also the site is probably too restricted, In all fairness its an attractive design and at last we'll have a modern national stadium to be proud of!

The North Terrace is where the more hardcore support have always congregated and at present is where Eircom League clubs(i.e.REAL Irish football afficionados) recieve their paltry allocation from the FAI.A cauldron or intimidating atmosphere is a thing of the past in the present premiership/bastool football climate. If the FAI had any cop that would be the area reserved for the real partisan fans with ultra type Italian displays.Then you might see a proper atmosphere in that stadium.Hope it does get built, any argument for football being played in Croke park is pointless.It's totally unsuitable to holding large international fixtures.The pitch is too big and Hill16 would be deserted due to UEFA /FIFA regsI think it would be even more devoid of atmosphere than the present Landsdowne

Landsdowne is practically falling tp peices. Compring Landsdowne to other, for example, 6 Nations Stadiums, it's the worst of the lot, and a bit of an embarrassment, especially when we have Croke Park lying idle. Bring it on is what i say!

[Quote:its a real pity that hill 16 couldnt have been finished to the same standard as the cusack, hogan and the canal end, it gives the stadium an unfinished look.]


I'm disappointed with the new Hill 16 too....it just looks ill fitting. I think the architects made a bit of a dog's bollocks of it really. I was at a few of the Dubs matches this year and sitting high up in both the Cusack and Hogan stands I could take a good look at it. Considering the constraints with the railwayline etc...but firstly, there is a gaping hole either side of the terrace where it does'nt connect with the Hogan and Cusack stands. I think these should have been filled in. Secondly, the terrace appears lob-sided with the electronic screen, the bunker and the flag ploes placed where the old Nally Stand was. (Whats the bunker for in any way?) I think a bit of symmetry should have been applied and the screen, etc placed way up in line behind the goal. This might have given a better flow to the terrace. Thirdly, the little piece of terrace stuck in the corner beside the bunker and electronic screen just looks rediculous. I think the disjointed Hill 16 takes from the rest of the stadium. For 20 odd million euro it could have been visually better.

I can't believe it cost 20m that sounds like a price from Abbotstown and not HQ

Landsdowne is practically falling tp peices. Compring Landsdowne to other, for example, 6 Nations Stadiums, it's the worst of the lot, and a bit of an embarrassment, especially when we have Croke Park lying idle. Bring it on is what i say!

Unlike yourself and it seems most of the Irish public, politicians, commentators, etc. I have no real problem with the current state of Lansdowne. Sure, it's not modern or cool, and if you're the type who'd be too embarrassed to be seen driving a 12 year old cheap Ford, for example, then I suppose it might discomfort you worrying what the neighbours think. The entire east stand and terracing are absolutely fine - great views from everywhere in the east stand and great cauldren like atmosphere on the east terrace. There are a (very small) number of blind spots in the west stand but 99.9% of the seats have great views. The north and south terraces are o.k. too as far as terracing goes.

Like I said before, I'd rather be able to get a ticket for the big rugby internationals and watch the game in an old-fashioned stadium, than watch the game on telly knowing that the well-connected (via the blazer or corporate channels) are able to watch the match in more comfort. So for me (a person who has been attending matches in Lansdown since I was a child), the only real problem with it is capacity. Besides safety, everything else is secondary and I've been to some of the superb modern stadia like the Millenium in Cardiff.

Don't get me wrong, I actually really like the proposed design but the reality is that without an increase in capacity, for me, this is essentially a very expensive vanity project.

I can't believe it cost 20m that sounds like a price from Abbotstown and not HQ

Read it here yerself....http://www.gaa.ie/page/croke_park.html (under the heading Hill 16)

jimg...I was at the Celtic Cup final earlier this year at Lansdowne Road and I understand the sentimantality about the place but in reality I just thought the place was a right kip....It was an embarrasment too, my foreign mates could'nt get over it either. They scoffed at the place. The family silver in this instance really lets us down. My firm had it's Xmas party in the clubhous 2 years ago and my jasus, what a total dive. Cream smoke stained ceilings, manky smelly carpets. The decking outside was rotting where it never got a coat of preservative. Surely standards in the country have come on. We are no longer materially poor or poor of mind.

I would'nt say either that the new proposal will be limited to just 50,000 full stop. I'd say there will be the opportunity to increase the capacity somewhat. It's still at the planning stage and they don't want to frighten the residenets by saying that it will hold 70,000 or whatever. Each step at a time.

GregF, I guess it's a matter of priorities. I couldn't care less if foreigners "scoff" or go ooh-ah. I couldn't care less whether it's a good place for office christmas parties. I have no particular sentimental attachement to the place either; the east stand (my favourite bit) is relatively new. I just want to be able to get tickets to watch international rugby matches.

The single biggest and most obvious flaw with the Lansdowne FOR IRISH RUGBY SUPPORTERS is simply not being addressed by this re-development.

Also, I think you're sadly mistake with the hope that they'll be able to sneak an extra 20k seats into the place. The planning system doesn't work that way.

The general area has flooded twice in the last 20 years once in 1985 and the last time in 2002; on both occaisions Landsdowne Road was unaffected; although conversely it might get some action for the residents in the area who have had temporary private swimming pools. ;)

here is and idea sink it 20-30 feet.. sure if it floods we can rename it the new National Aquatic Centre, maybe this one wont leak so much

But would that be deep enough for International dive competitions?

GregF, I guess it's a matter of priorities. I couldn't care less if foreigners "scoff" or go ooh-ah. I couldn't care less whether it's a good place for office christmas parties. I have no particular sentimental attachement to the place either; the east stand (my favourite bit) is relatively new. I just want to be able to get tickets to watch international rugby matches.

The single biggest and most obvious flaw with the Lansdowne FOR IRISH RUGBY SUPPORTERS is simply not being addressed by this re-development.

Also, I think you're sadly mistake with the hope that they'll be able to sneak an extra 20k seats into the place. The planning system doesn't work that way.

Your entitled to your opinion, but its worth listening to other peoples opinions now and again and it isn't a bad thing to consider johnny foreigner s opinion of our housekeeping here on the Emerald Isle now and again. There's always room for improvement and raising the bar setting higher standards whether in life, sport etc....

I'm sure the new Lansdowne Road will more than cater for the need of the REAL IRISH RUGBY SUPPORTERS too.

or at least the CONTINUITY IRISH RUGBY SUPPORTERS

ha ha,.......na, they disbanded after the last 6 nations disaster.

Or were they not banished to their clubhouses after the clubs starting selling the tickets as corporate packages for 500 quid a pop

If you want tickets join a club (one of the ones that doesn't sell them to a corporate) and you'll get tickets most of the time - if not go to some of the pubs and ask does anyone have a spare ticket. Anyone (genuine fan) with a spare will usually sell it face value. I've got tickets like that on plenty of occasions and never payed over face for them.

But can you imagine Ireland V Scotland, Wales and Italy in the 6 nations in Croke park - the place will look half deserted - I think 50K is an OK size for Lansdowne

Building out-of-town stadia went out in the eighties. It's a terrible idea as the pre/post match atmosphere is generally dire. Many people drive so cannot drink and just disappear after the game; even if you don't drive there is little reason to hang around a carpark near a motorway. Even in the US - the land of the automobile - all the new baseball stadia are being built in "downtown" areas in recognition of the mistake that was made in seventies when the stadia moved out of the cities. No matter how many pubs, restaurants, etc. you build into the stadium complex, it could never compete with the hundreds of pubs, restaruants, shops, hotels, guesthouses within walking distance of Lansdowne Rd. It's one great thing about Dublin that we have two stadia within walking distance of the centre. It's what makes Dublin possibly the most popular destinations in Europe for rugby.

There's decent arguments on both sides for the "out of town" debate. There's no doubt that having a stadium in the city itself is an ideal scenario - cardiff itself is a bit of a kip but the fact that the stadium is right slap bang in the centre makes up for it. The key with Cardiff, however, is that they went the whole hog - an absolutely cracking stadium with a huge capacity. Murrayfield is also a great ground and you can still walk to it from town. Twickenham is a pain in the arse to get too but the stadium makes up for it. I went to the World Cup semi-final in Sydney and that ground is amazing but it's a 3 day camel ride to get there.

In Belfast they are talking about building a new 30,000 seater stadium as part of the regeneration of the Maze prison. I think that's just too far away but the idea of using a stadium for regeneration isn't a bad one per se - take the Telstra Dome in Melbourne. They have, however, undertaken to play at one Ireland international there which would be great news for the north.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that there are 2 choices and if it's going to work it has to be all duck or no dinner. You either build a state of the art stadium with a minimum 65,000 capacity in town or outside town with decent transport links. A half-arsed redevelopment of Lansdowne will benefit neither the ardent rugby fan (who still won't be able to get tickets) not the city itself. In its current form it's a big silver elephant.

exactly, at least when the GAA swapped their crumbling patchwork of a stadium for new shiny plastic seats at a cost of several hundred million they also actually added 20,000 to the capacity.

I've said it before - this stadium is so constrained by its location and perceived threats posed by residents to be very unambitious.

Finally when you spend 300- 400 million on a astadium and don't increase capacity it can only mean one thing - higher ticket prices.

Heres a good link to check out folks.....www.worldstadiums.com

Check out the stadia in Ireland and the UK. Note the capacity of each stadium too.
Currently Croke Park is the largest by holding more people out of all the stadia in Ireland and the UK.
Sadly, the new Wembley will take the honour when it opens next year.

Sadly, the new Wembley will take the honour when it opens next year.

Does the fact that a stadium is the biggest in this part of Europe really important?

Whilst Croke park has an impressive capacity is it not a combination of the design and the unique games that it showcases not its strongest selling points. The all time World Cup attendance record is held by a Stadium in Montevideo from a final in the 1930's when over 140,000 people crammed into a stadium which would today have a seated capacity of 50-60,000; scale is hardly everything me thinks.

It is a sad reality that the IRFU and fai are forced to build an inferior venue; but in my opinion an inferior venue in a Central location is vastly superior to a second Croke Park outside the M50 to my mind. Croke Park is almost unique in that one gets the Edge City Stadium and the inner City location to provide atmosphere for the City as well as attendees.

Landsdowne is the correct call and I really hope that the planners will be in a position to grant permission without too many modifications.

[QUOTE=Thomond Park]Does the fact that a stadium is the biggest in this part of Europe really important?
QUOTE]

Well ermmm, I was only stating a fact.......and sure why not that it is?

Does the fact that we don't have a decent national stadium really important?

The all time World Cup attendance record is held by a Stadium in Montevideo from a final in the 1930's when over 140,000 people crammed into a stadium which would today have a seated capacity of 50-60,000; scale is hardly everything me thinks.
To my knowledge, the largest attendance at a world cup finals match was at the deciding match of the 1950 world cup between Uruguay and Brazil. This was at the Maracanã stadium in Rio. It had been built for the world cup - 10,000 people were involved in its construction! When finished, the capacity was 43,000 higher than that of the previous record holder, Glasgow's Hampden Park. The official attendance at the final was 174,000 although some sources put the real attendance at up to about 220,000.

Landsdowne is the correct call and I really hope that the planners will be in a position to grant permission without too many modifications.
I agree. It is a pity that they couldn't have turned the pitch around and made the capacity a bit bigger, but the two clubs have a lease on the back pitch which they were unwilling to give up. There was also a report done several years ago which concluded that the only circumstances in which the Irish soccer team would need an 80,000 capacity ground would be for a competitive qualifying match against England. Whether this is still true, and what the situation is with demand for big rugby matches, I do not know. The ratio of corporate seats to total capacity is also comparable to that of the new Wembley (about 19,000 out of 90,000)

The north stand would also seem like a suitable place to dedicate for away fans for a big soccer international against any of our neighbours.

[Pedantry]


Discussing facts gleaned from the back of a beer mat can never be considered pedantic :D

I totally agree on the lost opportunity of turning the pitch 90 degrees as the gain of a significant potential set aside on the northern side could I thought have been used as a buffer zone to protect both the height of the overall design and the houses on Havelock Square.

Personally I think its a great design even if some people refer to the north end as a bus shelter. It will defintely soak away all the atmosphere but its better than nothing I suppose.

There are lots of plus points if you can forget about the bus shelter. Its a orginal design which matches this nation in that we are european but different to the rest of the bland continental stadia. Thank god its not like the sometimes darn ugly anglo saxon stadia.

Its great that we put it smack bang in the middle of the city. It will be a wise decision in future years. The north's stadium plans in the Maze are nothing short of a diaster. There will be absolutely no atmosphere whatsoever.

i think the design is great and 50,000 is a good number of people to have in a ground. if all goes well this will translate really well into reality. i doubt if the envelope will be pushed by attemting to ammend the application if it appears likely to pass by increasing capacity to 60 or 75g. i'll be grateful to see irish soccer and rugby get a great home and the continued use of the oldest rugby ground in the world assured (apparently anyway) so if it takes until 2009 so be it...lets just hope it gets built!!!

hypotetically.. say the IRFU bought all those house that are complaining about the sunlight not getting in , could they extend the stadium around to cover all four sides ?

Nice design...as the poll says wrll make a good counterpoint to the angular Croke Pk.

True, it will make a superb contrast to Croker. 2 great stadia in the city centre.

Maybe not as good as Munich's Allianz Arena but still lightyears ahead of any other stadium ever built in this country. :)

Personally I prefer Croker

http://www.lrsdc.ie/gallery/singlecategory.asp?PCID=74

pictures of the construction. seems to be progressing well

Any updates on the stadium? Found this image.
8249

Its well adanced, about halfway i reckon.

http://www.webeireann.com/archiseek/landsdowne_august.jpg

More images on:

http://www.lrsdc.ie/gallery/photocategory.asp?PCID=34&NCID=68

probably the most frequently updated construction site for any major project in this country, fair play to the LRSDC.

this thread has a few relatively recent pics from yours truly
http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?p=84159#post84159

they're currently lifting the frames for the upper tiers into place so it's really really taking shape in the last few weeks and now looks like a stadium rather than any random site. The best view, and the one that nearly ends with me cycling into the Dodder every shagging morning and evening, is from Ringsend Bridge across down the river. Great stuff

Good article on the engineering of the roof

http://www.bdonline.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=453&storycode=3122100&c=2

Thanks for posting PTB, interesting stuff.

Looks as if the renders are infact more accurate than notional :) I wondered if we might get a crude interpretation.

Although I would have preferred to see the stadium turned to allow for increased capacity, the design is certainly unique, and yes ok, dictated to a large degree by its environment, but the resulting seamless wall / roof structure if executed as well as described will hopefully leave us with a new icon for Dublin ...

... and the magic of the walk from town to landsdowne will live on ;)

World class stadium and great design!! Pity that the capacity of the stadium is just 50,000, would of liking to see 60,000 capacity at the stadium. I know height was an issue but if they positioned the stadium to a more central location of site they would be able for 60,000 capacity. One side of stadium very low but if it was positioned centrally away from houses or turn 90 degrees it would reach 60,000+ capacity. Still like the plan, i know they need a bit of open space at the site Ah well:p

I'm hopeful that the interior tier layout of the stadium will look more like the impressive estadio da luz in Lisbon rather then the over rated Emirates (Two designs this stadium will be based on).By this i mean that the tiers will be stepper as in the estadio da luz and that the corners of the third tier will not drop to low as with the Emirates.

8253
(estadio da luz):cool:

8255
(emirates)

It's too small, the end with 6 to 10 rows of seats look horrendous. The Irish Rugby team pull 70000 - 80000 at every game now, New Lansdowne Road Stadium is a complete waste. The Estadio da luz in Lisbon and the Emirates stadiums referenced above are vastly superior.

Surely there is scope to complete the stadium properly at a later date. They (IRFU + FAI) could buy up those properties at the Havelock Square/single tiered end bit by bit over time.

I bet that is their intentions, and this part of the stadium will be developed to a height like the rest.

Will probably bring the capacity up to 65,000 then. ( or even 70,000)

Check this out , the rendered stadium looks superb in the footage. I hope it will look as good when finished.



http://www.faivantageclub.com/virtual-tour.htm

Cheers for posting Greg. Seems to imply a mirrored finish ! I'd prefer semi-translucent panels myself, obvious potential for lighting to completely change the colour of the exterior.

I'm not crazy about severity of dip at the havelock square end, perhaps this can be re-worked in future but given the 'seamless' nature of the wall roof/structure, it won't be easy to achieve and it appears no provision has been made, could be wrong though.

It will however lend itself to a brilliant camera-lift angle from the havelock square end; where the stadium wall curves forward to become the roof & a packed stadium comes in to view ;)

Ah, the beautiful game! Even the stadium is beautiful! (cf. Cabaret)

Ah, the beautiful game! Even the stadium is beautiful! (cf. Cabaret)

But where are the wirgens?

Developer have added a live webcam of the site on its website!!! link http://www.sisk.ie/sisk/sisk/www/default.asp?magpage=25&id=565&sector_id=9&wid=2 Also added recent pic of progress from lrdsc website