I was wondering is anyone aware of the fate awaiting one of Irelands most historic houses. The developers are about to convert the 100 acre estate into two championship golf courses designed by Colin Montgomerie and Mark O'Meara. Alongside this there are plans to convert Carton House- the former home of the Dukes of Leinster; the Fitzgeralds into a luxury 200 bedroom hotel. This is possibly the biggest and most important of the remaining 'Landlord houses' in Ireland. The plans for the symetrical mansion include the deleopment of a new wing which will brake the symetry. It is hard to believe that about twenty years ago the Irish Government was given an opportunity to purchase the entire estate for around IR£1 million pounds. While I accept that the development is immenient, I think the developers should be lobbied to leave the house intact, and build a modern hotel in another part of the estate. I was wondering does anyone know anymore about the proposed development.

Just to note that the Carton estate is actually 1000 acres not 100 as the previous entry states

For those unfamiliar with Carton:

http://www.archeire.com/iaa/images/carton_lg.GIF

Oh CHRIST.

John

This is disgraceful but why oh why are we not surprised. They've been trying to ruin Carton for years.

I see from last Thursday's property section in the Irish Times that there are plans for 10/12 apartments for Carton House. This is a disgrace. Its very disappointing to read about Frescati House and twenty years on what has been learned. Yet anyone former Fitzgerald house is about to be destroyed by developers. How can they get away with this in the year 200. Fair enough for Kildare county Council to grant planning permission for 150 houses and 2 golf courses in the 1000 acre demense- but to implant apartments into what is arguably one of the finest house- both archecturally and historically in the whole country. Why is this being allowed. Surely the developers will make enough money and profit from the existing developers and would it not be a noteworthy gesture to hand over the whole house and existing outbuildings to the state. Surely this would receive considerable praise and might make the rest of the development more acceptable!!!

This should not be allowed to proceed!!

Does anyone know who the architects are?

Check out today's Irish Times Property section for the latest updat on Carton House. Does anyone have a copy of the plans for the house. I think its very interesting that the most important room- the Saloon- is not being turned into a museum.
And the second query is in relation to the fact that the State looked at the property twice- when I wonder? http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/property/2000/1019/prop3.htm

This is a beautiful historic house set within a lovely landscape with it's parteur garden. I've just read the article in the Times and it is quite shameful for what they are about to do to this invaluable house.There is a photo too of the 'Salon' room and what a Roccoco jewel. The very thoughts of the gerry builders pulling and dragging the interiors about is a total nightmare.Again golf courses are included in the plans, how many more does his country need. This is destruction in the guise of redevelopment and it should not go ahead.

Why are former golfers & halfwits always in cahoots to ransack the country?
This must be stopped. We have too many golf courses & not half enough beautiful parkland & public gardens.
The setting at Carton looks magnificent, Im sure the original grounds were even more so.

It's an absolute tragedy that a part of our architectural heritage is to be ruined so as the hob nobs can enjoy their jacuzzis and rounds of golf. How shallow! You can just imagine the likes in their V-neck and turtle neck pullovers pretending to be cultural in such surroundings as they talk shop.Yuck!

I am very surprised to see such negativity to a proposal like this. All we have to do is look at examples such as;
MOUNT JULIET
THE K-CLUB
DROMOLAND CASTLE
KILKEE CASTLE
and probably many more
What these developments have done is open up these estates to the general public, and allow them enjoy the historical past that come with them.

I think to re-develop Carton Estate is the correct decision.

Also, I forgot to mention Castle Town House in Celbridge that also has apartments and is open to the general public.

Maybe some guys need to do some research.

Exactly how open are these golfing emporiums to the public.
Mount Julliet has 24hr security, extremely expensive membership and dotted with houses & apartments for the mega-wealthy. The public can drive in and glimpse what is on offer, but never avail. These estates are available to less than 2% of the population, except when they pay the exorbitant green fees or the entry fee to some for of golf competition.

They are truely the domain of the wealthy, just as they were in the days of the landlords, except today the landlords are the Irish themselves.

But is'nt the idea of actually interfering with the original and true fabric of the house a bit detrimental.It was after all a stylish house to be lived in and not a theme park. One will need big bucks no doubt to see the very inside and I very much doubt if one will be looking at the original once the gerry builders get their meddling paws on it.

I find it very sttrange that many statements keep returning not to the historical value of the house, but to the classes of people who will be using it. I wonder would so many opinions be stressed so vigorously if some people were part of the class that can afford that type of luxury.

On another note I have many times as a member of the public walked around Dromoland Castle, Ashford Castle, Kilkee Castle and Castletown Estate of which is a sister estate of carton and has lost none of its histortial value, I would advise you guys to maybe take a drive out some sunday and have a look.

We all argue constantly that progress needs to be pushed forward, and yet when we try to step into the future we insist on holding onto the past

Carton Demense was also offered of the town of Lexilip and they destroyed the part they allows control

I'm not complaining about the people who'll use it but complaining about the interference with the historical fabric.Must all manor houses follow suit. Anyway I'm quite wealthy myself but spending a weekend loafing about playing golf, sipping brandy's,trying to please the wife or mistress, talking shop and pretending to be cultural is not my style.The pubs for me, an 'original' one with salt of the earth characters, beer flowing and an auld sing/song. Sure 'whatever you're into' says you.

sounds good to me Joe.

But must every estate home follow suit, I mean just to use an analogy it would be like converting every church in Ireland into a gaming arcade.

But must every estate home follow suit, I mean just to use an analogy it would be like converting every church in Ireland into a gaming arcade.

opti,
What class were you referring to when you stated:

'I wonder would so many opinions be stressed so vigorously if some people were part of the class that can afford that type of luxury.'

Is it the class of '66, working class, pure class, etc.
Are you supporting a class system, i.e. a hierarchy of the value of life. Most of Ireland is made up of the newly rich. All the old money is just about gone anyway (The demise of Carton Demense being a pretty obvious example).
Is Carton to be a new toy for those with more money than sense.
He who knows the price of everything & the value of nothing attitude. Can we at least keep one in 10 historical building intact without the onset of the neon brigade